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让西方人了解中国的最大障碍是什么?

2017-12-14 | 分类:文化 | 评论:1人

What is the greatest obstacle to westerners’ understanding of China?

西方人了解中国的最大障碍是什么?

【美版知乎quora网贴翻译】

Richard Black, studied at University of Toronto
Answered Dec 6
I was living in China until May of this year splitting my time between Hong Kong and Zhongshan.
I’m at the point where I don’t even like to talk about China with people who don’t know it because the same old tired stereotypes keeping coming up.
Two major flaws I see in western thinking on China are:

我住在中国,今年5月后从香港和中山往返。我不喜欢与那些不了解中国的人讨论中国,他们对中国的印象是刻板老套的。

我认为西方对中国的看法主要有两个缺陷:

1、It must become democratic to be successful. I certainly understand the ideology behind this, but look at a few facts: China’s growth is literally unprecedented in world history. Since 1978 when Deng Xiaoping started to liberalize China, its per capita GDP has increased by 52 times. China has lifted more people out of poverty since then than happened in Europe during the industrial revolution. Do you realise just how stupid it sounds from a Chinese perspective to hear people lecture them on democracy when the world’s leading democracy has Donald Trump in power? From their perspective why do they need democracy? Their system is outperforming any other system on earth.

1、必须成为民主国家才能成功。我当然明白这背后的意识形态,看看几个事实:中国的增长在世界史中是史无前例的。1978年邓小平改革开放以来,人均GDP增长了52倍。自那以后,中国摆脱贫困的人比欧洲工业革命期间的都多。你知道吗,当世界民主领导让特朗普执政时,从一个中国人的角度,听到对他们关于民主的说教是多蠢?从他们的角度看,他们为何需要民主?他们的体制比世界其他任何体制都要出色。

2、China will collapse, just like Japan in the 80’s. China’s per capita GDP is 14% of that of the USA and its population is 4.3 times the size of the USA. This is not at all like the scenario with Japan. China is investing in long term projects such as the BRI, in education, in research, in foreign investment. Nothing indicates short term thinking that might collapse. Will China undergo economic contractions? Yes, they just did and they got through it and it was nowhere near as bad as the US housing market collapse.

2、中国将崩溃,就像80年代的日本一样。

中国的人均GDP是美国的14%,人口是美国的4.3倍。这一点与日本完全不同。中国在诸如一带一路、教育、研究、国外投资等投资长期项目,没什么表明短期能让它崩溃的。中国会出现经济紧缩吗?会,他们有过了,且度过了难关,而且远没有美国房地产崩溃那么糟。

As others have said, go to China, be blown away with what it’s really like versus what you think it’s like. It’s wealthy beyond belief and poor beyond belief. The food is fantastic and the food is god awful. The people are kind and they’re damn nasty, the driving is something to behold. Go experience it and form your own views.
12.5k Views · 518 Upvotes

正如其他人所说,去中国吧,了解真正的中国。中国的财富与贫穷都让人难以置信,食物很好吃也很可怕,开车也有意思。去体验吧,你自有定论。

译文来源:Quora中文网 http://quora123.com/485.html

Tom Chandler, Sourcing and technology transfer with Chinese industry for 2 decades
Updated Feb 20 · Upvoted by Alex Chen, Born and raised in China; currently a PhD student in University of Liverpool
1、About 11,000 km is the major obstacle…
2、The media likely comes in a close second place.
Personal contact with the Chinese people ( or any other culture) always reveals somethings about the people of that country, With more face to face contact, all people have a better understanding.

1、西方与中国相距1.1万公里是主要障碍;
2、媒体大概排在第二位。

与中国人(或其他文化)的个人接触总能揭示出这个国家人民的一些事情,面对面的交谈也多。

As a westerner learning to understand China, I have traveled to many locations in China several dozen times and with each contact with new friends and business associates, I understand a lot more about China and the people. Understanding how to do business in China begins to break down many barriers to understanding other things about China, including the government officials, and how the citizen fits in to this society that is seemingly so different than the west, but not really … at least from my narrow perspective.

作为了解中国的西方人,我去过中国很多地方,每次都结交了新朋友和生意伙伴,我更了解中国和中国人。对如何在中国做生意的了解,开始打破许多障碍去了解中国的其他事情,包括政府官员,以及公民如何适应这个与西方完全不同的社会,但并非真正地(了解),至少从我狭隘的角度看。

China is evolving so quickly in the past 25 years, that I suspect some Chinese may also have some “understanding gaps”, with unprecedented growth in housing, infrastructure, availability of goods, etc, in just less than one generation.
My understanding of China in 2000 will be changed considerably by my frequent trips considerably over the past 15 years, as the skyline literally changes year by years.

中国在过去25年内发展迅猛,我怀疑一些中国人可能也会有“理解差距”,在不到一代人的时间里,住房、基础设施、商品供应等方面的增长前所未有。

我在2000年对中国的理解,过去15年里频繁的旅行而发生巨大的改变,城市天际线每年都在变。

I don’t see how any one can truly understand another culture from such a distance , particularly with politically biased media often publishing opinions that differ from reality .
EDIT: Travel to China, spend some time with people, eat the food, use the squat toilets, and learn about the Chinese culture and why so many Chinese people are so proud of their culture and their country , and respectful of their government.
142k Views · 519 Upvotes

我不知道哪个人能从这么远的距离真正了解另一种文化,特别是政治偏见的媒体经常发表与现实不同的观点。

去中国旅行,与人们相处一段时间,吃(那里的)食物,使用蹲厕,了解中国文化,以及为何这么多中国人对他们的文化和国家感到自豪,并尊重他们的政府。

 

Robin Daverman, World traveler
Updated Aug 5, 2016
“What is the greatest obstacle to westerners’ understanding of China?”
A2A.
There are already a lot of good answers here. Distance, Language, Mass Media, are all great obstacles. I just want to add one more item to the list – 2500+ years of agnosticism/atheism.
The greatest obstacle for Westerners to understand China is just how incredibly brainwashed the Westerners are by the Abrahamic Religions. All this

谢邀。这里已经有很多精彩的答案了,距离、语言、大众传媒,都是巨大的障碍。我只想再加一项:2500多年的不可知论或无神论。

西方人理解中国人最大的障碍是,西方人被亚伯拉罕宗教(天启宗教即三大教)洗脑的程度。例如:

“I’m burning you up on the stake for the good of your soul.”
“I’m killing you in massive numbers and bombing you to pieces so that you can have Freedom.”
“I’m advocating for the breakdown of your social structure and social contracts because everybody can have more Right but nobody needs to have more Obligations. Like everybody gets to spend more money but nobody needs to worry about making money.”

“为了你的灵魂,我会把你烧死在火刑柱上。”

“我会杀死你很多次,把你撕成碎片,这样你就自由了。”

“我倡导你的社会结构和社会契约崩溃,因为每个人都能获得更多的权利,没人会承担更多义务,就像每个人都能赚更多的钱,但没人需要担心如何赚钱。”

The vast majority of the Westerners actually, wholeheartedly, believe this sh*t. The Chinese, coming from an agnostic/atheist culture, wholeheartedly don’t believe this sh*t. The Chinese believe –
You are nice to me, I’m nice to you.
Killing somebody without trial is absolutely the worst of the worst. If a person is dead, what Freedom are you talking about?
Your “Rights” don’t come from “God” and don’t grow on trees. You get it from other people just like you. So your Right is some other people’s “Obligation”. Thus if you yourself don’t shoulder equal Obligations, you should not expect to get any Rights either. It’s all mutual.

大多数西方人真心实意地相信这些东西。中国人来自一个不可知论/无神论文化,完全不信这些东西。中国人相信的是:

你对我好,我也对你好。

在没有审判的情况下杀死一个人是最糟糕的事情。如果人都死了,你还谈什么自由?

你的“权利”不是来自“上帝”,不是长在树上。你是从其他像你一样的人身上获得的。所以你的“权利”是一些其他人的“义务”。因此如果你不承担同等义务,你也不要指望得到任何权利。这些是相互的。

The Chinese think of everything in terms of People – people manage people, people solve problems, people manage the environment, people live together, …. The West, coming from a theist culture, are obsessed with various abstract concepts, various “-isms”, a whole bunch of them. One of the hilarious cultural conflicts you see on Quora is how many Westerners keep asking “Is China Still Communist?” and coming up with a lot of highly abstract definitions of Communism, and how China fits or not fit with them. Well let me tell you that one of the biggest face palm moment in CCP’s history was in the 80’s, when the Chinese people told the CCP:
“Being poor is not communism!”
“Well what is communism then?”
“Being rich together!”

中国人以人为本——人管理人,人解决问题,人治理环境,人一起生活。西方来自一种宗教文化,沉迷于各种抽象概念,各种“主义”,等等。quora上你能看到的滑稽问题之一是,好多西方人一直在问“中国仍是共产主义吗?”并提出了很多高度抽象的共产主义定义,以及中国如何适应或不适应它们。好吧,我告诉你,中国共产党最重要的时刻在80年代,当时他们告诉中国人民:

“贫穷不是共产主义!”
“那什么是?”
“共同富裕!”

You see, that’s how the Chinese think of communism – being rich together. All those academic stuff means nothing to the common Chinese. They don’t care, and they don’t get why You should care either.
The same things goes with the concept of “Law”. The Chinese view “laws” as a way for people to get along. No more and no less. It doesn’t take on some divine meaning just because It’s the Law. That’s why most of the laws and regulations in China have a period of “trial and revision”, basically, to see if most people agree to abide by them. If they don’t, then obviously the law is wrong and need to be changed or rolled back. It blows the Chinese’ mind if they know that the US Congress, with 10% approval rating, gets to make Laws, and the rest of the 90% of the Americans just automatically follow the law or go to jail.

看吧,这就是中国人所想的共产主义——共同富裕。所有学术上的东西对普通中国人来说毫无意义。他们不在乎,也不明白你为什么要关心。

同样的道理也适用于“法律”观念。中国人认为“法律”是人们相处的方式。不多不少。不需要神圣的定义,因为这就是法律。所以大多数中国的法律法规有一段“试用和修订”时期,主要是看大多数人是否同意遵守。如果不遵守,则法律就是错的,需要修改或撤回。如果中国人知道,美国国会有10%的通过率就会制定法律,剩下90%的美国人只需要自动遵守,要么就进监狱,那会打击中国人的思想。

The Chinese culture is not only non-theist, but also non-doctrinal. Clothes is just for people to wear and look good. Tea is just for drinking. Bureaucrats/Civil Servants are just one of the tools that enables people to take care of the common interest, and all live better. The Westerners tend to look at these through the subliminal lenses of Culture, Tradition, Democracy vs Evil Yada Yada, … The Chinese don’t even get why Westerners make a big deal out of all these stuff, keep trying to bend the real world into the imaginary world, while ignoring the most important things, like, are the people living better? Is the society becoming more civilized?
What can be more important than real people?
12.1k Views · 302 Upvotes · Answer requested by Paul Denlinger

中国文化不仅是非神圣的,而且也非教义。衣服是用来穿着好看的。茶是用来喝的。官员/公务员只是让人关心共同利益、过得更好的工具之一。西方人想通过文化、传统、民主与邪恶等等的潜意识镜头看这些东西。中国人甚至不懂为何西方人对这些东西小题大做,一直想将现实世界扭曲成幻想中的世界,而忽视了最重要的东西,例如,人们过得更好了吗?社会更文明了吗?

什么比真实的人更重要呢?

来源:Quora中文网(微信号/QQ号:),转载请注明出处和链接!

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  1. 敌敌畏
    Post:2018/06/25 18:00:55

    回答的很棒,对中国了解比较深,甚至我怀疑是中国人

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