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美版知乎quora:为何中国和日本不原谅而是仍记着二战发生的事情?

2017-11-17 | 分类:军事 | 评论:1人

Why don’t China and Japan forgive but keep on remembering the things that happened during WWII? Why speak of their people like how they treated us in the past?

为何中国和日本不原谅而是仍记着二战发生的事情?

【美版知乎quora网贴翻译】

Feifei Wang, I spend about the same amount of my life in China and in the US.
Updated Oct 27
China certainly wasn’t hero in WWII, but we’re most definitely the victim.
And I’ve never heard anyone in their right mind said “I wish all Japanese would die or disappear”. So let’s not set up your own straw man and start beating it. Sure some people might say “I hate Japan” in the heat of the moment, when talking about many war crimes the Imperial Japan had committed during WWII. But I do believe most Chinese people are more than happy to leave the past, if Japanese government could stop glorifying their war criminals every single fucking year.

中国在二战中当然不是英雄,但绝对是受害者。

我从未听说一个头脑清醒的人说:我希望所有日本人死或消失。别给自己树立假想敌又去打倒它了。当然,当谈及二战时日本帝国犯下的诸多罪行时,会有一些人盛怒之下会说“我恨日本”。但,如果日本政府能停止每年对他们战犯的参拜,我相信大多数中国人会非常愿意让它过去。

It’s not the Chinese or Koreans or other Southeast Asian countries who wouldn’t forgive and forget. NO. It’s not us. And as a Chinese, you should know this better than anyone. It is the prominent members of Japanese government who choose to pay tribute to Yasukuni Shrine every year, and it is the Yasukuni Shrine who refuse to remove the war criminals name from their shrine hiding behind religious believes despite heavy backlashes from countries all over East and Southeast Asia.

不是中国人或韩国人,或其他东南亚国家不想原谅或忘却。是的,不是我们。作为中国人,你应该比任何人都明白这点。是每年都供奉经过神社的日本政府要员,是靖国神社以宗教信仰作为庇护,不肯移除战犯名字,不管东亚和东南亚国家的强烈反对。

The Korean Comfort women had commented on Japanese government attitude on their war crime is that “It is as if the Japanese government is waiting for us to stop speaking out and die.” Instead of apologizing and own up to their war crimes, the Japanese government is basically waiting for all the people who are still bothered by their war crime to die out and they can continue to honor their war criminals and their militarism past without protest.

韩国慰安妇曾就日本政府对她们犯下的战争罪行的态度发表评论:“好像日本政府等着我们不再说话和死亡一样。”日本政府没有道歉,没有承认战争罪行,而是等着所有仍为他们的罪行烦恼的人死去,而他们能继续在没有抗议的情况下,致敬他们的战犯和军国主义者。

I like Japanese people, they’re peace loving people just like Chinese. I like Japanese Manga, J-pop, TV shows, and I love their culture. But that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize Japanese government’s deliberate ignorance of their war crimes, and infuriating lack of sincerity when they do remember to make a half ass “apology”.
So no. I’m not going to forgive and forget. Even if I didn’t personally suffer in the war. Japanese government needs to face their war crimes like Germans did half century ago. They don’t get to kill millions of Chinese people and worship the mass murderer in their Shrine.

10k Views · 205 Upvotes

我喜欢日本人,他们和中国人一样爱好和平。我喜欢日本漫画,J-pop,电视节目,我喜欢他们的文化。但那不意味着我不能批评日本政府故意无视自己的战争罪行,并在他们的确记得却做毫无诚意的“原谅”时而生气。

所以没有。我不会原谅并忘记,即使我个人并没有经历战争。日本政府必须面对他们的战争罪行,就像德国在半个世纪前犯下的一样。他们没有杀死数以百万的中国人后在神殿致敬屠杀者。

译文来源:Quora中文网 http://quora123.com/360.html

Rinat Abdekadir, I’m a Kazakh-Chinese who was born in Xinjiang.
Updated Oct 10
Because Japanese ministers visit the Yakusuni shrine every single year.
Just to give you an idea of how offensive this is, imagine if Germany made a shrine dedicated to class A war criminals.
And Angela Merkel visits it every single year.
And also add “did the holocaust really happen?”.
Now, imagine you are Jewish.
Tell me how you feel.

出生在新疆的哈萨克斯坦人。答于10月27日。

因为日本部长们每年都去参拜靖国神社。

为了让你们知道这点多无礼,想象一下,德国人造了一座供奉甲级战犯的神社。每年默克尔总理都要去参拜,还加上“大屠杀真的发生过吗?”。现在,想象一下你是犹太人,告诉我你的感受。

Now, take that feeling and project that onto Chinese people (and Korean + some SEA)
I’m not even directly affected, my family was on the other side of Asia at the time.
The fact that I’m pissed off at these idiotic racist Japanese and Western assholes who go on Quora, Reddit or YouTube and pretend that it’s not OK for Chinese people to be mad because “Mao, Mao, Mao”.
As if it’s ok to murder 15 million innocent people because hey someone else did it too!
That’s the reason why Chinese people can’t forgive.
23.6k Views · 659 Upvotes

现在,带着那个感受映射到中国人上(以及韩国人和一些东南亚人身上)。我甚至没有直接受影响,当时我的家族在亚洲另一端。

我对那些在quora、reddit、YouTube上的白痴种族主义的日本人和西方人感到愤怒,而且他们假装中国人愤怒是不合适的,因为“毛、毛、毛”。

就好像杀死1500万无辜的人是可以的,理由是其他人也这么做了!

这就是为何中国人无法做出原谅的原因。

 

Amanda Liu, knows Japanese
Answered Oct 21
There are quite great answers already.

I will purely speak about my own experience. My mother’s side of family are from northern China. My Grandmother’s mother died during a Japanese air bombing. My Grandmother, was at the age of 8. She dropped school, which was in Japanese, since she lived in Manchukuo which was under control of Japanese government and army. She went to a Japanese candy factory and started her job, wrapping candies, at 8 years-old, to take care of her younger siblings. At that time, every bomb or fight, amongst Chinese, Japanese and Russian, she and other kids had to hide in their self-dug underground shelters. Girls had to shave their heads to avoid being dragged somewhere and raped. Lucky enough she survived till PRC was constituted in 1949. She got a job, married and had her kids. Life was never easy, and all her life, she remained poor.

我只会说我自己的经历。我妈那边的家庭来自东北,我曾祖母在一次日本空袭中去世。我外婆当时8岁,她辍学了,原因是她住在日本政府和军队控制下的满洲国。她去了一家糖果工厂开始工作,包装糖果,以照顾她年幼的弟弟妹妹。当时,每次轰炸或空袭,中国人、日本人和俄罗斯人,她和其他孩子必须躲在地下避难所。女孩子必须剃光头,避免被拖到某个地方强奸。幸运的是,直到1949年新中国成立,她活了下来,找到了一份工作,结婚生子。生活从来不易,她一辈子都很穷。

She learnt that that I was going to study Japanese in university. She told me: Time has changed, we also need to progress, in many different ways. To know them and communicate is better than disconnect and remain misunderstood. Certainly she did not express herself in a very profound language, but she did not have hatred.
We can forgive but not when the criminals refuse to admit the crimes that have done, even worse, they try to erase and twist this part of the history. It is history but it is not that long that we all forgot what happened. My Grandmother died couple years ago, aged 81. In memory of my Grandmother and her mother, all the miseries they have lived, I will never forget.

她直到我要在大学里学日语,她告诉我:时代已经改变,我们也要以各种方式前进。了解他们并联系,比断开联系、一直误解更好。她当然不懂用深奥的言语表达自己,但她没有仇恨。

我们可以原谅,但不是在罪犯们拒绝承认他们犯下的罪行,甚至想抹去和扭曲这段历史的时候。这是历史,不是很长,我们都忘了发生什么。我外婆几年前去世了,享年81岁。为缅怀我曾祖母和外婆所经历的苦痛,我永远不会忘记。

We cannot forgive and move on because this has not been solved yet, namely, we are still waiting for an official apology, for the tens of millions innocent lives, who had died, injured, suffered and traumatized.

2.6k Views · 128 Upvotes

我们不能原谅并前进,因为这还没有解决。也就是说,我们仍等待一个正式的道歉,为了那些已经去世的受过伤、受过苦、心灵受创的数以万计的无辜生命。

 

Tim Bambauer, Global research and direct investment since 2010
Answered 2h ago
I was in China near Wuhan when news broke of the Fukushima earthquake and tsunami that killed thousands in Japan. When the tv announcer gave an estimated death toll, the large, local crowd stood and cheered.
My colleagues and I were a mix of European and American business executives and were stunned at the scene.

当福岛地震和海啸造成日本数千人死亡的新闻出来时,我在武汉附近。当电视广播员报道预计死亡人数时,当地群众起立欢呼。

同事和我都是欧洲和美国的企业高管,对此震惊。

I asked a good friend who is an American of Taiwanese birth why this was so. He shared that his mother happened to be from Wuhan, and that she was a little girl when WWII broke out. As one of 13 children she was separated from many of her siblings when she and others fled to the Phillipines (not far enough.) He suggested that when I returned to my hotel that I research what happened in Wuhan during WWII under the Japanese and talk the next day.
What I found was a volume of horrific retelling of a months long conflict which pitted a ruthless invading Japanese war machine against a beleagured defense force and hundreds of thousands of civilian refugees who had retreated to Wuhan as a last stand.

我问一个美籍台湾人的好友,为何会如此。他说他的祖母刚好来自武汉,二战爆发时她还是个小女孩,作为13个孩子中的一个,她和兄弟姐妹们分开,逃亡菲律宾。他建议我回到酒店时查查,武汉在日本二战期间发生了什么,并隔天讨论。

我发现的是一段长达数月的可怕战斗,无情的日本侵略军对付陷入困境的防御军,数十万难民撤退到作为最后一站的武汉。

Yoshiaki Yoshimi Is a Japanese historian who provided proof that Emperor Showa (Hirohito)…personally…signed orders to use chemical weapons against Chinese civilians and defenders in order to take Wuhan. His orders were relayed to field commanders by Imperial family members who were also senior officers in the conflict. It was one among a list of total warfare battles pitched between Imperial soldiers and defending, often unarmed, civilian defenders.
My experience the following morning included a sobering conversation where my friend retold the losses to family…some children, others adults. The atrocities included chemical attacks, as well as the more widely known rapes, murders and collateral damage of being in a war zone, now historically confirmed as executed to the extreme by the Japanese invaders.

日本史学家吉见义明提供了证据,日本昭和天皇亲自签署命令,使用化学武器对付中国平民和捍卫者,以拿下武汉。他的命令被皇室成员传到战地指挥官手中,这些人也是战争中的高级军官。这是一串帝国士兵和手无寸铁、无名无姓的平民防御者的战争之一。

我的经历还包括第二天早上一个深刻的谈话,我朋友讲述了家族的伤亡……一些孩子,其他成年人。暴行包括化学袭击,还有更广为人知的强奸、谋杀还有作为战区的附带伤害,历史已确认,这是日本侵略者的极端行为。

The truth sank in that these were not just Chinese celebrating the misery to a rival culture. These are people, many of whom have parents and family who lived through the atrocities of the most barbaric war practices in the 20th century. It’s one thing to resent stories of long past offense by cultural adversaries, but quite another when 400,000 people were gassed, raped and murdered within the generational lifetime and immediate families of the audience.
It was not just Wuhan either. It was everywhere the Japanese went.

2.5k Views · 135 Upvotes

事实是,这不仅仅是中国人在庆祝一个敌对文化的悲剧。这些人,其中很多人的父母和家族经历了20世纪最野蛮的战争暴行。讨厌过去被文化敌人侵犯是一回事,但观众中的这一代和直系亲属的40万人民被毒死、强暴、杀害是另一回事。

不只是武汉,还有日本人曾去的任何一个地方。

来源:Quora中文网(微信号/QQ号:),转载请注明出处和链接!

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  1. Suyou69
    Post:2017/11/21 11:37:00

    我是中国湖南南县人,虽没经历过那场战争,但老辈给我们讲述过。
    先是百度百科的“厂窖惨案”:日军发动“江南歼灭战”后,分多股兵力由湖北进犯湖南,从藕池附近、石首、华容、岳阳等地,向安乡、南县水陆进犯。同时配合天上飞机轰炸,最后在厂窖形成一个合围圈。当时,驻守华容、南县、安乡的国民党第73军等部主力1万多人奉命撤退准备西渡常德,以摆脱日军的围追堵截,刚到厂窖,便被逼入这个南北长10几公里,东西宽约5公里的狭长的半岛。被逼入这个半岛的,还有湘鄂两省随军涌来的2万多难民,其中包括一部分公务人员、学校师生等,加上当地居民2万余人,整个厂窖垸被包围的军民共有5万余人。一时间,军民不分,难民如潮,鸡飞狗窜,一片混乱。5月9日至12日的三日间,灭绝人性的侵华日军在厂窖残酷杀害中国军民3万多人,摧残致伤3千余人,强奸妇女2千多人,烧毁房屋3千多间,炸沉、烧毁船只2500多艘,震惊中外!
    二是我外祖在世时(我大二时,她1990年已去世,)我们问起过日本人来时,她们是否受到影响。她说:那些日本人很坏,她当时带着我妈和我姨(我妈当年12岁,我姨8岁)在棉花地里藏了三天,回家时,家里的腌菜全部被日本人掏走,菜坛子里都有拉了大便。那三天,三个人就在地里饿了三天。那一次,我一个邻居爷爷,跟随逃难的人群往厂窖方向逃,被日本人枪杀了,邻居叔叔才10岁!
    我们这一辈的人,从上辈人那里或多或少的知道当年的战争。
    中国人也不愿意仇恨日本人,也愿意放下包袱往前看,但是日本人为曾经的错误道过歉吗?!如果日本不是侵略中国,它来中国干什么?战败后的日本,不承认那场侵略战争、不承认死难三十万人的南京大屠杀、不承认慰安妇事件、不承认使用化学武器,甚至更改教科书,还将战争首犯供奉到靖国神社参拜,其目的是什么?德国的道歉和反思获得了全世界的谅解,日本为什么得不到东南亚国家和人民的谅解?!

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